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Subscribe, rate, and share to support the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, PocketCast or wherever you listen.

Follow us on LinkedIn for updates and join the conversation.


Welcome to “Terms of Service,” the podcast that dives deep into the fine print of our digital lives. Every time we check the box on an app, website, or online service, we’re making choices—often without knowing the full story. From giving away our privacy to navigating complex security settings, we’re all part of a digital landscape that’s constantly evolving.


Join us as we unpack the themes that shape our online experiences: privacy, security, safety, and the everyday permissions we grant without a second thought. We’ll explore how AI, agency, and decentralized technologies are reshaping our digital world, often in ways that fly under the radar. And because no conversation about our digital lives would be complete without it, we’ll tackle the legal and policy implications that come with our clicks, swipes, and taps.


Whether you’re tech-savvy or just trying to keep up, “Terms of Service” invites you to join the conversation about the hidden costs of convenience in the digital age. Tune in to explore, question, and rethink the terms we often accept without a second thought, and let’s challenge the norms of our digital lives together.


Credits

Produced by Mary Camacho & Nicole Klau Ibarra. Music and sound production is by Arthur Vincent at Sonorlab.


Behind the Mic


Co-founder of Holochain, and CEO of Holo, Mary leads the development of peer-to-peer and decentralised technologies that empower users and redefine digital interactions. With over 20 years in tech and telecom, her career has been dedicated to enhancing user control, privacy, and digital autonomy.


Mary's educational background as a social scientist grounds the explorations at intersection of sociality and technology, exposing the trade-offs in privacy, security, and agency inherent in our digital choices. On “Terms of Service,” she invites listeners to rethink these everyday interactions and the broader implications of AI, distributed tech, and legal frameworks on our digital lives, advocating for a future where individuals have greater control over their data and decisions.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfcamacho/


Nicole is a visionary entrepreneur with a diverse background, she is passionate about social system design and has helped multiple ventures, Including the IKIGAI Project, her non-profit helping people build essential 21st-century skills- many of which intersect with the topics discussed in Terms Of Service.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-klau-ibarra-b26818137/



Arthur Vincent is a seasoned Music and Audio Producer with a passion for pushing the boundaries of music technology. As a music producer and sound designer, he has crafted innovative audio experiences for global brands like Heineken, Philips, and Cupra. Alongside his creative work, Arthur is also an expert in audio technology, mastering both hardware and software tools to deliver high-quality, immersive sound.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-vincent/

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Episode Summary

In this episode of Terms of Service, host Mary Camacho sits down with Mei Lin Fung, co-founder of the People-Centered Internet and a pioneer in customer relationship management (CRM). Mei Lin shares her personal journey from Singapore to MIT, her role in shaping the CRM industry, and her commitment to ensuring that technology remains a tool for human flourishing. Together, they discuss the current “Great Disruption” brought on by digital transformation, the importance of community-driven technology, and why feedback and inclusion are key to resilient societies.

Key Takeaways

Topics Covered / Timestamped Sections

Guest Bio and Links

Mei Lin Fung – Co-founder with Vint Cerf, of People-Centered Internet in 2015 is a leading voice in Digital Public Infrastructure for opportunity and community resilience. An early pioneer of Customer Relationship Management and ERP systems, while at Oracle she worked with Marc Benioff, now CEO of Salesforce as well as Tom Siebel who sold Siebel Systems - the first CRM company, to Oracle. She served as socio-technical lead for the U.S. Federal Health Futures and was honored to be business partner with Internet pioneer Douglas Engelbart. Mei Lin organized the 2024 UN Science Summit Digital Governance Series which included the UN AI Report and a rare plenary by Turing Award winner, Dr Alan Kay; The 50th anniversary of the Internet was the occasion for the celebration in Palo Alto California - with IEEE, in London - with the Royal Society, in Brussels - with the I50Y, the youth celebration, where Mei Lin served as catalyst, initiator and speaker. Today Mei Lin is the Chair of the Technical Committee on Sustainability for the IEEE, Society on the Social Implications of Technology and serves as the liaison to the IEEE Industry Engagement Committee for IEEE-USA.

Resources Mentioned

Further Reading / Related Episodes

Call to Action

Curious about how to navigate the Great Disruption and build people-centered digital futures? Listen to Mei Lin Fung’s inspiring insights and learn how inclusion, feedback, and collaboration can reshape our digital society.

🎧 Listen now: Episode Link

Credits

Host: Mary Camacho

Guest: Mei Lin Fung

Produced by Terms of Service Podcast

Sound Design: Arthur Vincent and Sonor Lab

Co-Producers: Nicole Klau Ibarra & Mary Camacho

","content_text":"EPISODE SUMMARY\n\nIn this episode of Terms of Service, host Mary Camacho sits down with Mei Lin\nFung, co-founder of the People-Centered Internet and a pioneer in customer\nrelationship management (CRM). Mei Lin shares her personal journey from\nSingapore to MIT, her role in shaping the CRM industry, and her commitment to\nensuring that technology remains a tool for human flourishing. Together, they\ndiscuss the current “Great Disruption” brought on by digital transformation, the\nimportance of community-driven technology, and why feedback and inclusion are\nkey to resilient societies.\n\n\nKEY TAKEAWAYS\n\n * Human collaboration is the foundation of societal survival and progress,\n magnified now by digital technologies.\n * The “Great Disruption” refers to the rapid changes in how humans interact due\n to digital transformation, with both challenges and opportunities.\n * Mei Lin’s career, including early CRM development and co-founding\n People-Centered Internet, emphasizes technology’s potential to empower rather\n than exploit.\n * Singapore’s example shows how numerate, inclusive governance and long-term\n investment can enable societies to thrive.\n * Effective leadership today requires participation, feedback systems, and\n learning from all voices—not just the powerful few.\n\n\nTOPICS COVERED / TIMESTAMPED SECTIONS\n\n * 01:30 – Introduction to Mei Lin Fung’s background and lifelong mission.\n * 03:30 – Growing up in Singapore and the impact of investing in education and\n infrastructure.\n * 08:56 – Early CRM days: Shaping the industry through community and\n engagement.\n * 12:30 – Why she answers hundreds of questions on Quora: listening to people\n as a leadership practice.\n * 13:15 – Defining the “Great Disruption” and how human collaboration is\n evolving.\n * 18:30 – Lessons from Singapore’s digital governance and health policy\n success.\n * 21:00 – Founding the People-Centered Internet: Technology as a tool for\n inclusion and equity.\n * 31:20 – Building networks of communities to experiment and grow together.\n * 36:00 – Policy leadership and shaping digital equity at the G7 level.\n * 38:15 – Mei Lin’s magic wand wish: Making participation and feedback\n essential to future societies.\n\n\nGUEST BIO AND LINKS\n\nMei Lin Fung – Co-founder with Vint Cerf, of People-Centered Internet in 2015 is\na leading voice in Digital Public Infrastructure for opportunity and community\nresilience. An early pioneer of Customer Relationship Management and ERP\nsystems, while at Oracle she worked with Marc Benioff, now CEO of Salesforce as\nwell as Tom Siebel who sold Siebel Systems - the first CRM company, to Oracle.\nShe served as socio-technical lead for the U.S. Federal Health Futures and was\nhonored to be business partner with Internet pioneer Douglas Engelbart. Mei Lin\norganized the 2024 UN Science Summit Digital Governance Series which included\nthe UN AI Report and a rare plenary by Turing Award winner, Dr Alan Kay; The\n50th anniversary of the Internet was the occasion for the celebration in Palo\nAlto California - with IEEE, in London - with the Royal Society, in Brussels -\nwith the I50Y, the youth celebration, where Mei Lin served as catalyst,\ninitiator and speaker. Today Mei Lin is the Chair of the Technical Committee on\nSustainability for the IEEE, Society on the Social Implications of Technology\nand serves as the liaison to the IEEE Industry Engagement Committee for\nIEEE-USA.\n\n * People-Centered Internet\n * Follow Mei Lin on Quora\n\n\nRESOURCES MENTIONED\n\n * Douglas Engelbart’s concept of Networked Improvement Communities\n * Nobel Prize-winning research on social institutions and economic development\n\n\nFURTHER READING / RELATED EPISODES\n\n * Episode 4: “Dynamics of Digital Spaces: Rethinking Democracy Online”\n * Episode 5: “Regenerating Social Fabric & Innovating Governance”\n\n\nCALL TO ACTION\n\nCurious about how to navigate the Great Disruption and build people-centered\ndigital futures? Listen to Mei Lin Fung’s inspiring insights and learn how\ninclusion, feedback, and collaboration can reshape our digital society.\n\n🎧 Listen now: Episode Link\n\n\nCREDITS\n\nHost: Mary Camacho\n\nGuest: Mei Lin Fung\n\nProduced by Terms of Service Podcast\n\nSound Design: Arthur Vincent and Sonor Lab\n\nCo-Producers: Nicole Klau Ibarra & Mary Camacho","image":"https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/images/item-bdd7152c8311422af01e693fc16d19bf.jpg","date_published":"2025-04-01T13:00:00.000Z","_microfeed":{"is_audio":true,"is_document":false,"is_external_url":false,"is_video":false,"is_image":false,"web_url":"https://termsofservice-xyz.pages.dev/i/the-great-disruption-building-human-centered-digi-goDcF1Nff0b/","json_url":"https://termsofservice-xyz.pages.dev/i/goDcF1Nff0b/json/","rss_url":"https://termsofservice-xyz.pages.dev/i/goDcF1Nff0b/rss/","guid":"goDcF1Nff0b","status":"published","duration_hhmmss":"00:41:05","itunes:title":"The Great Disruption: Building Human-Centered Digital Futures","itunes:episodeType":"full","itunes:season":1,"itunes:episode":8,"date_published_short":"Tue Apr 01 2025","date_published_ms":1743512400000}}],"_microfeed":{"microfeed_version":"0.1.5","base_url":"https://termsofservice-xyz.pages.dev","categories":[{"name":"Business","categories":[{"name":"Entrepreneurship"}]},{"name":"Technology"},{"name":"Society & Culture"}],"subscribe_methods":[{"name":"RSS","type":"rss","url":"https://termsofservice-xyz.pages.dev/rss/","image":"https://termsofservice-xyz.pages.dev/assets/brands/subscribe/rss.png","enabled":true,"editable":false,"id":"5KuKX2TWFWr"},{"name":"JSON","type":"json","url":"https://termsofservice-xyz.pages.dev/json/","image":"https://termsofservice-xyz.pages.dev/assets/brands/subscribe/json.png","enabled":true,"editable":false,"id":"ESlJHyH8pYk"}],"description_text":"Subscribe, rate, and share to support the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,\nPocketCast or wherever you listen.\n\nFollow us on LinkedIn for updates and join the conversation.\n\n\n\n\nWelcome to “Terms of Service,” the podcast that dives deep into the fine print\nof our digital lives. Every time we check the box on an app, website, or online\nservice, we’re making choices—often without knowing the full story. From giving\naway our privacy to navigating complex security settings, we’re all part of a\ndigital landscape that’s constantly evolving.\n\n\n\n\nJoin us as we unpack the themes that shape our online experiences: privacy,\nsecurity, safety, and the everyday permissions we grant without a second\nthought. We’ll explore how AI, agency, and decentralized technologies are\nreshaping our digital world, often in ways that fly under the radar. And because\nno conversation about our digital lives would be complete without it, we’ll\ntackle the legal and policy implications that come with our clicks, swipes, and\ntaps.\n\n\n\n\nWhether you’re tech-savvy or just trying to keep up, “Terms of Service” invites\nyou to join the conversation about the hidden costs of convenience in the\ndigital age. Tune in to explore, question, and rethink the terms we often accept\nwithout a second thought, and let’s challenge the norms of our digital lives\ntogether.\n\n\n\n\n\nCREDITS\n\nProduced by Mary Camacho & Nicole Klau Ibarra. Music and sound production is by\nArthur Vincent at Sonorlab.\n\n\n\n\n\nBEHIND THE MIC\n\n\n\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-25fc934acfff709d9f9f80aa00494e2e.png]\n\nCo-founder of Holochain, and CEO of Holo, Mary leads the development of\npeer-to-peer and decentralised technologies that empower users and redefine\ndigital interactions. With over 20 years in tech and telecom, her career has\nbeen dedicated to enhancing user control, privacy, and digital autonomy.\n\n\n\n\nMary's educational background as a social scientist grounds the explorations at\nintersection of sociality and technology, exposing the trade-offs in privacy,\nsecurity, and agency inherent in our digital choices. On “Terms of Service,” she\ninvites listeners to rethink these everyday interactions and the broader\nimplications of AI, distributed tech, and legal frameworks on our digital lives,\nadvocating for a future where individuals have greater control over their data\nand decisions.\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-fea03ed04120277051a31cb932450e3a.png]\n\nhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfcamacho/\n\n\n\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-5ad7639f63416407575d251f59fc2ffd.png]\n\nNicole is a visionary entrepreneur with a diverse background, she is passionate\nabout social system design and has helped multiple ventures, Including the\nIKIGAI Project, her non-profit helping people build essential 21st-century\nskills- many of which intersect with the topics discussed in Terms Of Service.\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-7339db02160590446c70bd8ed111a7c8.png]\n\nhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-klau-ibarra-b26818137/\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-6076d176375ba31529acbbb2f715133e.png]\n\nArthur Vincent is a seasoned Music and Audio Producer with a passion for pushing\nthe boundaries of music technology. As a music producer and sound designer, he\nhas crafted innovative audio experiences for global brands like Heineken,\nPhilips, and Cupra. Alongside his creative work, Arthur is also an expert in\naudio technology, mastering both hardware and software tools to deliver\nhigh-quality, immersive sound.\n\n[https://media.termsofservice.xyz/termsofservice-xyz/production/media/rich-editor/channels/6TDNYiz6Umx/image-a3a2f1765cb87b9daac4c46e9455a835.png]\n\nhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-vincent/","itunes:title":"The Terms of Service Podcast","copyright":"©2024 Mary Camacho","itunes:type":"episodic","itunes:email":"info@termsofservice.xyz","items_sort_order":"newest_first"}}